E's Surf Report

tell her she can focus on my skinflute for 5 or 6 songs

I hear ya e. Since the chance of succeeding in the music world is so slim you really have to follow your dream. Formula concepts rarely work out. No one can predict what will work and what won't. Follow your gut, be happy.

Swell on the way? Winds?

music is supposed to be live. it's the juice, the moment, the unforgettable "ping" of souls joining the performance. would you rather surf a wave or watch a video? etc.

Old Fart Joe

doesnt sound like no relationship i would want to be in. egos more often than not suck. dude, start your own band i can play mary had a little lamb on harmonica!

ps. second photo from top is my dream wave

man those waves look fun! time for another surf trip. out late last night so didn't even check it. looks like i didn't miss much.

bummed for you on the band situation. of the 4 bands that i've been in i have to say i've been fortunate to work with open minded and collaborative musicians. i think it is ok to have a front man (or women) as long as everyone knows the vision and agrees with it in the beginning.

so many factors feed into finding the right people to work with. musical influences, personality, reliability, level of skill, the list goes on and on.

e, perhaps she can learn this one... buh bye.

Those three kids aren't ever going to be rippers now are they?

damn e...sounds tough. hopefully after your vent session the girl will realize that her ideas and opinions do not match with the rest of the group. if changes don't occur, then screw it. there are thousands of musicians in sf down to ROCK!

I just finished installing a device (Lexicon Pro - $300) that allows one to record up to 4 tracks Live at once and have each track recorded separately for individuall mastering in my home studio (read - back room with a computer and 2 mic's). This is a huge step up from what previously had to be, Live all instruments on 1 track (serious limitations), or 1 track at a time each going atop the previous (doable, but, not ideal to me). The feel of the song is so much better when recording say for example two guitars and a vocal at the same time.

Music is much like surfing. How cool would it be to paly a loud, amplified, electric guitar solo while surfing a big hollow barrell. The echo/reverb along with the crashing lip would be epic. Writing music with profit the focus is OK, writing music from the heart is long lasting.

e, I'm the drummer in a band and I know exactly what you are talking about. The bigger the talents and ambitions the bigger the problems along the way. It sounds like the lead singer is taking over and dominating the direction of the band, which is what typically happens b/c you have to have a solid ego to front a band in the first place (and they tend to get to liking that in several ways, affecting their psychology often to the other members' detriment). The drive of talent/narcissism/ambition sometimes gets the better of people (= FEAR OF FAILURE!). If she makes all the rules now, she will always make the rules and you will always follow. Precedents are being set and you have to be there to either accept them or fight her overheated ambitions off verbally and try and get back to a certain level of diplomacy.

Also, let her know she is replaceable too. Unless she isn't, then you're pretty much cornered and she's in the catbird seat. Bands are fun, but more than that they are WORK. It's like another full-time job, really. Good luck.

-MM

More from that stylemasters DVD....

"Guys like Rabbit, etc. come to North Shore with 50 dollars in their pocket and that's it, nowhere to live, just surfed all day. They were very fierce competitors because of that. That is how they got to stay the whole winter, if they won."
-Lopez

that's a drag about the band. i've been told this same tale of woe too many times. it's why i gave up on my garage bands and just surfed.

shoutout to JOC, just because.

E-

Tell her to beat it.

thanks for the comments y'all.

check the surfrider foundation blog

monkey milk - true words.

She's not exactly irreplaceable.. but.. lead singers with nice voices and a good stage presence are tough to find. Guitar players are a dime a dozen!!

I'll take picture #1 and picture #3, but i would like to visit Bagel at picture #2 occasionally to work on my backside.

Speaking of backsides, drop kick the bitch. Unless you guys have the talent to keep it rolling and make some records. Then consider getting a manager, and then drop kick the bitch anyway.

And lastly, with respects to backsides, here is a nice one :)

E- my wife is a professional singer from South America. she tried to get involved with a few bands here but it never went anywhere. what she has explained to me is that you have in the bay area a couple types of bands:

the ones that like to practice, jam, have fun and occasionally play live with no real focus or ambition

then you have others with a core group of their own songs that they feverishly perfect in scheduled practice sessions and have recorded on to a CD and perform live with the hopes of quiting their day jobs.

you need to figure out which one your bands falls into, if its the former then you need to part with the singer because the headaches arent worth it for a hobby, if its the later then it sounds like you are heading in the right direction and you guys should let her run the band. my .02

kaiser, i told you not to post that picture of me in drag dammit!

Saw a Jerry Garcia documentary awhile back in which he was talking about his musical relationship with David Grisman. Grisman was very rigid, very musically trained and precise. Jerry was the opposite, spontaneous and innovative. He said that this was the perfect match because both of them pushed each other hit the opposite sides of their music approach. Their band Old and in the Way is great, great music by the way.

Seems like this could relate to your band E. Gotta have a little of both, just as in life.

thanks DSX, that's a pretty astute observation. I'd say that we fall somewhere in between. The lead singer puts herself firmly in the second group. The problem with letting her run the band is that she's not a very good leader or communicator, though her music is good and she's talented.

Tell her to STFU and make everyone else in the band some sandwiches. Unless she's really hot, in which case just do what she says. Does she have a big rack?

The problem is good lead singers are hard to find. Take a step back and ask yourself 'Is her voice unique?'. If it is, keep her at all costs. But if she's just another singer who sounds like lots of others, dump her. Unique voices are the only thing that will set your band apart from others.

And don't fool yourselves that you're only it for the art. If that's the case go join a jazz group or a classical ensemble. Then you'll *really* know what it means to be a starving artist. Rock music and all it's variations is purely commercial in the end. It doesn't preclude creativity or having fun, but at some point you have to sell (i.e. share) your music to the masses, IMHO.

You guys need to decide what kind of band you want to be. Is the focus on the improvisation of the musicians, or the songs themselves? Some bands can do both well, but not many. It's tough to write poppy, radio-friendly songs AND have killer extended jams live -- Dave Mathews comes to mind.

But beyond what kind of music you play, there is the question of how you write your songs, which is really the issue here. It is possible to write songs collaboratively out of jamming, but in my experience it is not very effective. Yes, many groove ideas are born out of jams, but usually songwriting takes one or two people sitting and working things out without four or five people all trying out their own ideas at the same time. It's difficult and time-consuming to songwrite with an entire band present, and there are usually people pulling the song in too many directions.

Of course once the main songwriter(s) present a song, or a sketch of a song to the band, then everyone adds their own flavor and has their own ideas that may enhance the song.

My suggestion: Jam all you want with the band without the singer. Then, when you have a song sufficiently worked out to the point where it's presentable, play it for the singer at the next rehearsal.

If you'd rather jam than learn her songs, and she'd rather play songs she writes than the ones you write, it sounds like it's not working. You should be into her songs and be excited to play them, and vice versa (okay not EVERY song will make you get goosebumps, but you should at least be stoked on each other musically enough to want to play each other's songs!)

Yo e... How much time commitment does it take to do things her way? Is it something we she puts together the songs and then you get together occasionally, she shows you guys the parts, and you lay it down? If it's something like that and you definitely don't want to part ways with her, it might be cool to do her thing and then do a more improvisational project with the other guys in the band on the side. Might be too much of a time commitment to do both though.

I don't fault the ego-driven bands where one person is the main songwriter and everyone else is just backing them up, but everybody's gotta buy in. I had friends in bands like that in college where they did one band with basically no creative input backing up a songwriter and then did a second band for their creative outlet. Worked well for them.

She wants you to be her back-up band.

e - It sounds like what your singer really wants is a bunch of session musicians to back her career. You guys have to decide if you want to merely be the temporary vehicle for her success. Believe me, she will drop you guys the INSTANT she can get a record company to set her up with some session musicians - they'll be more than happy to play what she wants, the way she wants, as long as they're getting paid. Sorry if I sound kinda harsh, I've been dry-docked again.

I got this from sources I know personally. It happened about 10 days ago, in the town where she lives. Several hundred taxi drivers took part in an organized demonstration at the town government complex, protesting the police's corruption and ill treatment of non-locals. The drivers had no weapons, but they were very angry and animated.

The government sent thousands of riot police down from the big city, who went into the crowd busting heads. I don't know how many drivers were hospitalized, reportedly some were killed. Lots of vehicles were damaged, too, probably those luxury vehicles we always see parked at the gov't building, belonging to the officials themselves. I suspect damaging the officials' cars was the drivers' biggest mistake.

The entire crowd was arrested. In the following days, many drivers were released, but about 50 remain in custody because they're thought to be the leaders.

It turns out that there's an unofficial union up north, and they have thousands of taxi drivers from that province in this area. That union called for the demonstration. So it appears that the 50 detainees are from that province and connected to that union.

Of course, permission would never be granted to form a union. And to form one without permission is considered treasonous.

I asked my friend what these 50 alleged ringleaders would get. He responded that this is considered very serious, and perhaps they'll get life in prison. Myself, I have heard of executions for much, much less than that.

I don't judge the rioters right or wrong. And I won't make the mistake of putting them into a Western context. I'm just talking here about events.

According to "Know Your Left" (a liberal online journal), there were about 58,000 protests in China last year, involving about 3 million people, which is up 15% from the previous year. See http://knowyourleft.typepad.com/knowyourleft/2005/04/days_of_rage_ar.html

The China Digital Times seems to agree with them. See http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects/chinadn/en/the_great_divide/

Relevance? As our economy is increasingly affected by China's, it would be advisable to keep an eye on any destabilizing trends.

ratboy interview

buurp. thanks for the torta truck 411.

doesn't anyone want to surf?

in most cases the ones with the biggest mouths are the ones with the least skills.

sure blakestah, let's surf!! just let me know the spots that are firing and I'll be there!

I really want to surf.

F Ratboy. Pimpin' surftechs and tuflites and the like.

Surfing is over-rated. Let's post pictures of girls.

whats wrong with surftechs and tuflites?

South swells give me crazy eye.

surf, yes.
pictures of girls, yes, yes.
plastic surfboards? no.

With the state of technology today, your lead singer could get all that she wants from a keyboard. Or collaborating with just one guy that is versed in digital music techniques.

Back in the day, I was in a band where all the music was developed by first jamming together, recording it, and then editing the song down to something we could reproduce consistently. This made for a reproducable product, but at the same time it was diverse, because at any one jam it would be a different member of the Band that initiated the song idea.

People dug us because we were unique and even our songs were unique from one another. At the time we were one of the top draws in Orange County (this was back in the early 80's, and we couldn't break into the LA market, but that is another story). As we continued to play we were pushed toward having a more consistant sound, and this combined with our Lead Singer taking on a more excutive roll lead to greater potential for success, but I think the music suffered, as the songs began to sound the same.

I left the group to come up to College (I was the youngest member of the band) and when they came to SF for their tour, they were a band that I didn't want to be in.

As far as doing it for the Art, that is what I have been doing for the Last Ten years. I play in a group that does one or two gigs a year where we play before 200 to 300 people and at the last one we made over 3 grand (but it all went to charity).

Several of the guys in the group are professional musicians, and their reality is very different from that you see on MTV cribs or whatever.

But Hey, they are doing what they love and getting paid for it. Of course playing live music that you wrote is not the same as teaching some high school student how to play the latest Green Day tune, but one makes the other happen.

'grey' is a type of tea, 'gray' a colour.
hope your day has become less gray.
cheerio, charging chargers as well.
and of course, Beware the Gribbles!

Thought I'd help this guy out:

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/mis/79864760.html

That girl in the Wicked Weasel pic had no ass. Post some more hottie girl pics. Man, I need to get laid!

Having played music and been in bands back in the day, I agree w/99% of everyone's chiming in. A singer who wants to truly be professional will have to seek like minded musicians. Also: BEWARE lead singers who want to be famous...regardless of how they get there. Does your singer care about the quality of the whole BAND, or just THEMSELVES? What does the band want, are people willing to compromise? IMHO if your singer only wants to be famous, DROP THEM. They might have great stage presence and draw an audience, but the never ending diva fits will make rehersals hell and wreck the band, then you're left with nothing anyway. But I also believe that band democracy never works...mild dictatorship maybe... a leader who incorporates ideas but makes the end decisions gets things done w/out pissing people off toooo much.

I miss being in a band though. A dorky gig a month would be pretty fun.

surf looks like July!

thanks for your comments everybody!! very helpful in terms of putting things in perspective.

pacifica Yay!

Surftech and tuflite are taking the local shaper out of the surf industry. Is that wrong? My gut says yes, but if I flip through the history books, we can see the hawiaan hardwood to redwood to balsa to foam/fiberglass, then numberical cutting of blanks. But those still all required someone who surfs the same break you to do to do at least some of the work. Tuflite mass produces them in Thailand, probably no one who surfs touches the board until it gets to the surf shop...and at least they are still being sold in surf shops. When you see them at K-mart, it'll be too late.

grammer nazi -

grammer is spelled g-r-a-m-m-a-r

Grey and gray are pretty interchangeable. However, grey is a colour whereas gray is a color.

schweeet

all of tamayo perry

Sounds like there's enough talent here for the Niceness Orchestra.

i sacraficed a lot of dawnies this last year. BUT
i just got promoted!

a new surfboard is in my future!

btw: menlo park's new skatepark opens 6/28. it's got a sick looking bowl/pool.

i love that railgrab cutback a la pic #2. if i could do any maneuver, that would probably be it. pulling it all the way around and straight up into the whitewater. good to be back in the bay area. now i just need to get back into the water. if i can get my car started, i might hit it tomorrow am.
how hard is it to change out a battery?

I changed out a battery last week for the first time. It took me less than 10 minutes and I am not in the least bit mechanical.

the battery thing depends on what condition your terminals are in. i just tried to do mine, the terminals were corroded and totally solidified, i couldn't get them off the old battery, so I had to take it to a garage & they replaced them for 40 bucks. it was kind of a pain, way beyond my limited man skills.

is that limited-man skills, or limited man-skills

promotions are good, but so is pre-work surf. how much money is a good surf worth? who out there would take a demotion in exchange for a guaranteed mid-day surf?

but congrats....hopefully the money can translate to surf.

a new park sounds fun. actually, any park sounds fun. if any slashers out there wanna hit a park in the evening let me know!

the Melvins kick ass!

pathetic-lack-of-man-skills

I sacrificed work the past couple of seasons for the pre-dawn and (sometimes) arvo drive + surf + drive, missed the promotion, and came close to getting the boot. But, I would do it all over again because I am not going to look back in 40 years and wish I had attended more meetings or written more email. I would take that demotion for more surf, if I didn't think it was the first step on the way to a pink slip (see my post yesterday). As it is, I fake enthusiam for the corporate rat race and live for the times I spend with family, chasing waves, or enjoying the outdoors.

e, instrumental bands RULE

sorry san antonio

sorry Beaver

G-R-A-M-M-A-R, that was funny.

Chick has no ass? Please. Don't challenge me, I think I have proven how effective I am at the "CTRL C" "CTRL V" key strokes.

Did I just type "key strokes"?

good timing on that one old boy

listening to a beatalica song right now shits kinda funny

going to a giants game/bachelor party tonight, hm. missing game 7 and hot wings, hm.

side note:

ill bet those last 2 tamayo perry shots are the same wave; in fact i bet thats the dude in the bottom pik thats taking the shot that is the 2nd from the bottom. crazier things have happened, like World War II for example.

one more, why not? ill pick up dennis's slack

hey Phychonauts came out on the PS2 yesterday you should buy it, its awesome.

sorry if you get seizures

steve-o, i'd recommend shunning the corporate world altogether. i made the decision some years ago to do non-profit work only - work driven not by $$$s but other loftier values (i think). and luckily my employer, ucsf, also tends to pay well. they also do a good job promoting a work-life balance. heck, up to a certain classification it's against policy to work more than 40 hours! unfortunately, i've passed that....but they are good about letting me set my own hours and taking unpaid leave.
working in a cubicle is never ideal, but I really can't complain about my situation. good luck to you!

I worked with Jason Collin's aunt for a number of years and she told me the story of how his father died in the parking lot at Steamer Lane at age 38. Jason was at Cowell's, heard the ambulance and ran back to the Lane to find his father. This is the first time I've seen the story in writing. Maybe the "RatBoy" haters should read the article again. For someone who went through that experience, I think he turned out OK.

e - every read the story of big brother and the holding company? Is this chick janis? She is going to freak if/when she reads all these posts harshing her. To make your statement, sounds like a divorce is imminent. No biggie - chick singers are a dime a dozen - does she even know what key a song is in, or how to change key? If she ain't that good it sounds like it ain't that happening. Ten to one if the band has a reality sesh with her - you know, a good OB midwinter pumping north 40 whacks on the noggin sesh, she'll cave, or bail. Otherwise it's word out for new pipes. Follow your bliss, hard to find in the spring lineup. Methadone sesh manana?

Being in a band trying to "make it" sucks.
Take it from me....a guy who played in one. Yeah there were fond moments of playing at the viper room in LA, and Slims in SF....but for the most part, it was driven by the whole "making it" thing. a lot of bands are blinded by this day dream. As Kyle or Stan said from southpark said, "Just play the fucking SONG!"

Marathon rehearsal from 9 to 12 this evening. Last one before the big gig on Tuesday. We're just a cover band really but boy is it fun. Some David Bowie, some Talking Heads, some B52s, a Madonna song, a Prince song, and miscellaneous other tunes.

We rocked on Strobe Light tonight.

The Band has 9 members and 5 are professional musicians. All the pros in the group are in several bands. That is the reality of playing music for a living. You have several regular gigs with different groups, and most likely do some teaching on the side.

In a way I feel lucky that I can just hop in and do it for fun rather than as a job. Then I remember how fun my job is...NOT!

So anyhoo E- maybe you could play as your lead singers sideman, and then get together with the folks who you like to play with but without her.

WHERE SHOULD I GO IN BAJA?

side note:
I loved Psychonauts!! One of my favs by far!! The art and game where really good and lots of funny stuff in it!

I need some recommendations on where I should go down in Baja. And places I shouldn't. Can anyone give me some tips?

Whatsup Bagel I was gonna email you but I thought you would read this anyways. :O

Is there any way to view comments on the archives, or are they lost forever?

Yo E,

The band thing is tough, especially if you want to jam a la phish, allman, dead, etc...(IMHO the type of music), I think you need a new singer, no matter what your needs and wants and her expectations do not match, you gotta do what feels right, don't compromise everything, go find another singer, cuz its a crying shame to have to play the same shit every night. Either that or figure out how to make her compromise and negotiate (GL).

The bus came by and I got on thats where it all began...onthebus.

Regarding Dead, Phish, Allmans....etc, IMHO The BEST type of music...also did anyone here follow leftover salmon, what a great band, just read up that there banjo guy died from cancer in 02, what a shame.