ahhhhhh
If you didn't surf this morning:
Kinda crappy. Smaller. Funky with a wobble to it. Long waits for the decent ones. Crowded in the marginally doable zones. Murky/smelly ooze in the water. Annoying birds kept popping up, scaring the bejeesus out of you. Pretty shitty all in all.. it's good that you slept in.
If you hit it:
Plate glass oil glass tranquil glass. Sheen glassy mega-glass slick smooth mesmerizing glass. GLASSY!! yay! Waves too.. a few came in. Some snarky buggers. A few memorable rides will fuel my 9 hour drive tomorrow.
----------------------
Awesome parental posts yesterday. Thanks so much for all the contributions. I hope to have a few rugrats some day and y'all are an inspiration. here are a few of the posts:
I'm 34 and have a 3 year old son and an almost-5 year old girl. I had her paddling out with me at age 3, and cruising up and down the coast, occasionally finding ourselves right next to dolphins (with a little full-suit that we got her). While she was still two, she became the youngest participant in the annual Polar Bear Dip, on New Year's Day, here in Cayucos. Yes, if you couldn't tell, I'm crazy proud of my little charger. Now, she paddles out on the LB with me all the time and is charging on the bodyboard, as well. Our son is showing huge interest as well, but really needs a better suit; he ends up frozen in minutes.
What I'm trying to say is that it can be BLAST to share surfing (as well as everything else) with your kids. I was almost 30 when we had our first, and while it wasn't planned AT ALL, it was the best thing that ever happened to us.
One more thing; regarding teenagers being embarassed to be around their surfing dads. There's a local father-daughter team that ALWAYS surf together (she's around 18) and they both RIP and neither seems embarrassed in the least.
Kids are killer.
- eric
nap time + good conditions = happy mama.
the best thing i've ever taken part in is raising my son. it's really about sacrificing a lot, esp. if you are older and set in certain ways, like going when it's good. now, if the tide is crap and it's blown out when i can go, i just make the best of it. or go grocery shopping. it doesn't mean i don't feel a little grouchy about it once in a while. we are in hot pursuit of a good camper van so we can drive the coast and surf. if anyone's looking to sell one, pls let me know.
- betho
I don't no. I grew up surfing with a buddy and his dad. His dad was pretty cool, taking us to the beach and all. My buddy ended up going pro later in life. There are lamer dads out there.
- acctnut
Depends on lots of stuff. I know a guy who takes his 16 yr old daughter to DP with him literally every day, then clears out of there and speeds off to school, lying to the teachers for his daughter when they are late b/c the surf was good. They get along EXCELLENTLY.
- blakestah
j, no offense but are you fucking kidding?
Your bloated 50 year old dad paddles up on his tanker/bonzer/"o b gun"/funboard/"big guy" shortboard, pick one, probably wearing the helmet your mom forces on him, and starts trying to bro down with you and your just post grom friends, using a weird combination of antique surf lingo and incorrectly applied up-to-date slang he picked up reading your transworld surfs in the shitter before work, and you're not going to think he's lame? Think back to when you were 16, man.
That approach works with the kids 'til they hit puberty, then its pretty lame for at least until they've got a couple of years of college under the belt.
- anon
Well, you never know with kids. For some reason, my daughter got this strange fear of water at around age two. And I mean any water -- bathtub, swimming pool, paddling pool anything at all. Which made bathtimes a real joy until she was about 5-6 and it got at bit better. But all that meant that she was a really late starter to swimming -- it took her a few more years to get into a pool. Finally this summer, at age 12, it finally all came together and while she's far from being a strong swimmer, she's at least decent. She's interested in surfing, so I'm thinking Cowells -- we're planning to go down to SC at the end of the month for her b-day
- limevoodoo
I'd like to go into the confusing story of my Oakland family, but suffice to say after buying my 14 and 12 yr olds wetsuits and a lesson at Cowells, they won't go near the beach, even though they did quite well. Maybe because I haven't spent enough time with them going or hanging at the beach. (I'm in the water.) my wife and I are trying for another so maybe I'll have more patience this time.
- matt
Re the Dad front, I sent my wife the video of the guy paddling his son into waves on his longboard under the title "get ready". She wasn't too concerned about me trying that as she couldn't picture me ever buying a longboard. Before anyone comments, note that I am aware that as I get older and wiser my board will probably bet longer and fatter....
- traut
Let kids do what they want. Just guide them along the way and provide them an opportunity.
- kaiser sose
inspiring words surfer dads. i've often thought about how i will take my kids into the ocean/mountains/far off lands and try to get them stoked on it...the opposite of how i was raised...but then since he wasn't into it i grew up dreaming and motivated to go find it myself. which makes me wonder-- do any of you still-surfing dads experience the opposite? you're all over it but as a result your kids don't want a thing to do with it?
- mk1201
I don't have kids and it looks like I'm not going to at this stage of the game. I enjoy playing with my friends children but I also like giving them back after I get them all wound up ;^)
- Dennis
On the Father front, my daughter was a bit scared of the pool. Yesterday, she swam the width of the pool for the first time. My wife caught it on video. Game on!
- anon
3 weeks away from my first child. We moved in together, with her 9 year old, in May. I have surfed maybe 10 times since then-- Summer shiftiness and now, just commitments, rides to and from soccer,friend's houses etc.
This has been the toughest adjustment of my life- last year, this weekend, I roadied to my sis in Venice B via the 101, stopping leisurely, hit the Queen.. This weekend this year, setting up strollers, washing new baby gear in special baby detergent and about 15 lbs overweight.
That being said, there are many smiles through my days, I love my woman, new child and step child profusely. What I am learning is how to love in a way that is not customized to me and my sole lifestyle. Sacrifice- its deep!
All the words from those grinding on, leaping over or just chilling on the fence of Paternity are really inspiring for this guy turning Man.
Thanks
- steam-i
hey i forgot to re-mention (is that a word) that using a "kid emergency" excuse to bail on work for a surf is your right as a dutiful dad.
- 3to5setsof7
BTW, one more benefit of being a parent is that you get a chance to teach someone to surf, guilt-free.
- friend #1
Being a dad is killer.
I've got two sons that will soon be giving those dorks called the "Kellys Cove Local Boys" a run for their money.
I love my groms.
- judahpeak
thanks to all the fathers for sharing the stoke of having a family. it's been great to read how children can not only alter, but enhance one's perspective and experiences.
i've probably gotten more out of this thread than any other one on this blog. niceness.
- rza
OK, I just missed. Born in '63. I have a 4 y/o daughter, a 2 y/o son and another son coming on Jan. 6th. WTF were we thinking? 4-bedroom houses aren't cheap! Trundle beds, on the other hand, are.
Soooo true about all those comments on aging and fatherhood. And weekdays are definitely easier than weekends.
- sfkneelo
Kids are definitely a lot of work but are well worth it. It has been so rewarding sharing the ocean with my kids. My son has always enjoyed the ocean and has become obsessed with surfing (according to his mother)over the past 2 years. It has been so rewarding to see his skill level and stoke improve with each session. One session stands out last fall at OB. It was probably our second or third time out at OB in shoulder to head high decent conditions where we encountered the usual tough paddle out. Once my son made it out he was a bit tentative in the lineup but eventually gained some confidence after a few take-offs on smaller waves. He then caught a nice Aframe set wave which I had a great view of as I was sitting on the shoulder. I don't know who was more stoked- him or me- with his drop-in and carve down the face of that wave. His huge smile on the paddle back out told it all!
- markm
Man having kids is tough. I just became a stepfather of 2 lovely ocean loving future surfer girls with grandparents and family in Kauai..sound idealic but there's school homework and all sorts of stuff that a responsible parent must do ahead of surfing. Being responsible is very tough in some ways. Right now how good does a shroomy desert jam sound? E if you have nothing keeping you from going go, my freind, soon life will have more tethers keeping you grounded.
- antman
i'm 30 years old, and have 2 boys, 4 and 1/2 and 2 and 1/2. weekend warrior from the east bay, before the boys came along i was 3 times a week for a few years... as a teen in north carolina i was each and every day. i'd pier jump the back of double O waves to get out (on the random days the atlantic would bless us). now my heart skips when OB throws a random 7 footer on an otherwise head high day. in college in virginia i was a hurricane/noreaster/spring break swell only guy.
as a now infrequent surfer, my skills are poor and my fearlessness is lacking (gotta make sure I make it back home in 1 piece). i still love getting in the water every bit as much though, love the challenge of performing better than i should, love having fun in mother ocean, love having my older son tell me to get barrelled for him when i put him to sleep the night before a DP, and love the life i lead as a husband and dad.
it wasn't easy to have kids at the age my wife and i did (25), but I couldn't see doing it any other way now. if my boys get into it, i'll be heading on surf trips every weekend in a few years, camping over night and sharing secluded lineups with 2 of my 3 favorite people in the world. by the time i'm 44, my kids are gone to lead their own lives, and my wife and i will still be pumped to get out and surf/hike/bike/cuddle and generally take advantage of the awesome world we live in...
sometimes i yearn to live in montara, be financially independent, have no children, and do whatever the eff i want. but then i wouldn't be me, and wouldn't have the joys that i have every day in my life.
surf rules. family rules. take what's there and love it....
i'm often impressed by y'all here... keep it up. much love...
- anon
Ha, I was born in '62; gradually trying to get my 11yo into surfing. Kind of a setback the last year as he got scared once bodyboarding and hasn't wanted to go back in since. That tough balance between pushing and respecting what they're ready for.
- kloo
I'm 35 and have 80 kids, my life for a few hours a day can be hell, but it is mostly good.
- mexi
yup. I'm 37, one boy who is 3 and one who is 1. struggling with the getting older / lack of surf thing as well. kids are so worth it though. we go to OB on the weekends - the wife jogs with the kids, I surf.
surfing during the week is easier - weekends will become more and more for the kids.
trying to stay in shape so when I do surf, I can take full advantage. Bigger boards definitly help - it's not like I go vertical anymore.
Still jonesing though when it is on, and I have to deal with the kids...slowly getting over that though....
transitions.
- james
48, 49 in november. My kid is five. Waited until 43 before I thought I might be able to handle it. He got his wetsuit when he proved he could swim a length. He's surfed on my back (on the big-ass longboard), and got his first "dunk" about two weeks ago. Didnt like it, we headed in, he had a PB&J sandwich,, sat in the sun for five minutes and then said "I wanna go out again". The real problem is, he likes golf more than surfing (not my fault - I've never played golf in my life). Younger generation. I blame. Ah. Well.
- J
The rest of you youngins - Don't wait to have kids. A lot of people take it for granted that you can have kids later in life. but that is not always the case.
Funny thing is I entertained this "How much surfing do you miss as a dad?" queerie in the water this AM.
For me, I had to give up afternoon sessions. Mostly because my Wife is totally on in the AM, and I pick up the girl from preschool in the evenings.
Yeah, you miss some days. But mostly, I just don't go out in marginal conditions as much. Also, week days are easier than weekends.
- friend #1
good insight web. all of the new experiences that come along with kids sound extremely challenging and rewarding - but at this point, the challenging aspects are winning the debate. if it was only up to me, i'd wait another five years or so and enjoy the freedom and lack of serious responsibility. making babies will force me to take my career much more seriously, thereby insuring my spot in this here cubicle. yuck.
- rza
I need a massive spliff, a drum circle, some half clad natural goddesses dancing and a fatty organic salad. what a beautiful morning at the beach.
- nectar of ambrosia
You guys sound like cool dads. Wish mine had been a surfer. Instead it was, " Hey sweetie, just step backwards off the top of the boulde and try to walk down the side. Don't worry about dangling in the air. This rope sling will hold you - trust me, this same belay technique worked for me in '58. " I know you newer dads will do better than this. ;)
- sharkbait
Excellent comments, web. I'm going through that late 30's skill transition and trying to get my six year old daughter interested in surfing, so we can share a common experience. She doesn't like getting salt water in her eyes, though, so I signed up as a soccer coach so that I could be involved in something she does like. I'm losing two potential surfing days a week, but it's become less of a big deal with each passing week. Hopefully I won't feel any resentment once the wave machine turns on ;-)
- steve
3to5- read your post last night re kids. You must have gone through some tough times having yours at 28. At 28, I was in no way mature enough to handle parenting. But you were most likely way ahead of me mentally. rza- 3to5 is spot on, you will miss epic days, no way around it if you want to be the best parent you can…I am the same age as 3to5, and we had our first kid last year. The problem I am having to figure out is that because I am wanting/having to spend time with her and am missing surf days, my surfing is suffering because of it, also my surfing was already starting to suffer naturally just because I am getting older and cannot surf like I did up to my late thirties. For awhile it really depressed me…then I just let go and accepted the inevitable change….the initial letting go blossomed into welcoming the change…now I am slowly finding more comfort in my current “surf situation” than in my past, when I was surfing WAY better than now. Now, I ride bigger boards to make things easier. When I am “on watch” with my daughter I take her to the beach and hang out with friends and watch them surf. I have found that the younger guys respect my responsibilities and cut me some slack in the water. The older guys have all been there, and sometimes will come in early to hang out on the beach with me. In a strange sort of way, the surfing experience has become more complete by including my family, where before it was a very individual experience. I think our whole crew feels the benefit of seeing the next generation participating in the culture. When I show up now ready to surf, the question is “where is your daughter”. They are actually missing her. It has, in a small way, brought all the surfers in our crew closer together. Something I never thought of or expected. It is a beautiful thing to be part of.
- web
-----------------
Neal Miyake lives on Oahu and takes killer photos. I think he's a sponger and he scores tons of sessions. He runs this site.
padang padang photo from baliwaves.com
racetracks (i think?)
ulus
One other kid comment: If your teenage kids think you, you're either doing something very right or very wrong.
Man, fun waves last night. Such a pleasure to out in glassy evening surf. Caught several closouts but also got some nice fast glassy peelers--both lefts and rights. Once again, good crowd in the water all sharing.
I sold my 6'8 Flyer last night so I'm on the prowl for a new board. I have mixed feelings. Should I get an 8'6 gun or a 6'3 thruster? I have a 6'8 semi, 7'6 semi and a 9' longboard/gun kinda hybrid thing. I'm leaning toward the 6'3. I just can't buy both unfortunately, even though the need is there.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 10:25 AMI meant to say If your kid thinks you're cool...
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 10:26 AMBeaut morning...crisp cool air rapidly heated by the sun which blinded me off on several rights. A few attacks on the lip, a few drops, and a few rides on Loon's RFS board.
The new rotating rail fin boards come off the bottom and want to attack the lip, immediately. Then you pump a few times down the line and attack again. The RFS singles come off the bottom powerfully also, but project down the line, leading to smooth rounded cutbacks. Switching between the two of them was a fun contrast.
Kinda crowded but seemed like only about 5 or 6 guys could make the more critical drops (which were not all that critical today).
Posted by: blakestah at October 6, 2005 10:29 AMMy 8'6" gun was one of my all-time favorite boards ever at OB. Eventually I felt I wanted something a few inches shorter, but man it felt good and controlled in some really uncontrolled situations.
Posted by: blakestah at October 6, 2005 10:33 AMHey E,
Neal does it all, man: he sponges, surfs, and bodysurfs too. He's also getting up there in age and has been around (he's in his 40's), and also a proud father, so he fits well with all these posts about kids and parenting.
Went bodysurfing yesterday out in SF with a buddy of mine who is expecting his first born any day now. I hope he is able to move back here someday from Chicago and teach his baby girl how to body surf. Not a lot of bodysurfers out there.
Man, is it me or is the water temps real low? I had my first ice cream cold headache yesterday after 10 minutes into the swim out to the lineup. After two hours, I couldn't feel my toes, my fingers couldn't close, and I couldn't talk straight. I need to start looking to trade in my 3/2.
Posted by: MSG at October 6, 2005 10:37 AMThat Bali wave is insane.
Lost my cell phone last week and it was nicely returned to me this morning after many attempts to meet up but things got in the way. So the girl is nice enough to come by my office and I'm extremely appreciative. I asked her if i could give her any money for her trouble, her response is: "Oh, hehehehe, I am not American, I don't want money."
Thought that was a little odd. Was it inappropriate for me offer her money?
Posted by: TSM at October 6, 2005 10:40 AMOB has identity crisis. Check back in a few weeks.
Posted by: Kaiser at October 6, 2005 10:42 AMFriend #1 earlier in 2005 with disposable camera, photo taken by yours truly somewhere around SF:
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Posted by: Mr Doof at October 6, 2005 10:43 AMBlakestah - caught your post about Stretch, thanks. I was wondering if they did off-the-street work. Pretty nice to have that option and Ambrose's new set-up close by.
Posted by: R3W at October 6, 2005 10:46 AMHey MSG,
Where you a guitarist for UFO and the Scorpions in the late 70's early 80's? I dug the sound of your Flying Vee, nice controlled feedback, compared to my Birdland. Those solo albums of your were OK, but at that point Eddie Van Halen and Randy Rhoads had your game upped.
Or are you the food additive that I sprinkle on all my fresh game before cooking?
Posted by: Ted Nugent at October 6, 2005 11:04 AMYeah, I find that pretty tempting. Buy a coupla six packs, download the free APS3000, and design dream board. Agonize over the lines for weeks. Finalize it. Pick up blank at FH, drop it at Ambrose's machine and spend $45 for the blank and $35 for the APS runs.
Then, home. Finish the rails, rough the machine marks out. Down to Stretch for a $180 glass job.
Grand total of $260 for my own shape, and a pro glass job. It is definitely totally possible.
Of course, for not much more Tim Gras will make you an insane high performance thruster.
Posted by: blakestah at October 6, 2005 11:09 AMLast comment on the take your kid surfing thread. Don't let your kids use swim goggles all the time. They get addicted to them and you'll have a hard time getting the kids surfing without them. I've tried letting my girls wear the goggles on the board, but one good wave at the wrong time ripped the goggs off and sent her into a panic.
Posted by: steve at October 6, 2005 11:12 AMBlake,
Can Tim make an RRF (rotating rail fin) thruster? What's FH?
Posted by: steve at October 6, 2005 11:14 AMoops, left off the stah.
Posted by: steve at October 6, 2005 11:14 AMwind surfing, skiing, surfing
kite surfing, snowboarding, boogeyboarding
One takes skill...the other, just a little practice.
Posted by: geek at October 6, 2005 11:17 AMTSM- a mexican once found my phone and wouldn't give it to me unless I coughed up some cash (which I was already planning on doing). That was wierd. Kinda felt like paying a ransom.
Posted by: traut at October 6, 2005 11:17 AMThats funny, the complete antithesis of the woman i met.
Posted by: TSM at October 6, 2005 11:21 AMCaught a gazillion waves yesterday evening. Fun rides. Mellow paddles. Beautiful sunset. Gracias.
Posted by: amigoism at October 6, 2005 11:26 AMHey Ted,
Damn, i'm not that old. I'm a guitarist, I guess you're one too. I've been meaning to jam out with people on here, but after getting back from a guitar festival in SLO a few weeks ago, i'm guitar'ed the eff out.
Geek,
Snowboarding, harder than skiing. Kite surfing, harder than wind surfing (from what i've been told), but, bodyboarding harder than surfing? Not in my book. Unless you are saying the exact opposite, then I think you're nuts. Surfing, well, surfing bigger waves, is harder than them all, by far, and bodysurfing is, in some respects, harder than that too. I think snowboarding, or skiing, would be as hard as surfing if you had to worry about bears constantly attacking you, you had to walk up the slope to the top trying to avoid mini avalanches along the way, and then when you start skiing back down, you had an avalanche chasing after you. Then it would be comparable.
Posted by: MSG at October 6, 2005 11:36 AMI concur on last nights conditions. I'm no longer wooe'd out.
Posted by: bagel at October 6, 2005 11:37 AMsteve, Tim does really nice work. The rotating rail fin boards are really drop-in replacements on thruster shapes, so I don't really see any problem. They'll enhance a board the most if the board is designed to generate speed ie: lower rocker, tri-plane, wider tailed, thrusters. It has a still noticeable positive impact on thruster made for larger waves too but the rotating rail fins are really about generating and sustaining speed better, so the best would be a smaller wave thruster that is built for generating speed.
Anyone who can set any fin box with a router could install one. I gotta get the first production run done...
Posted by: blakestah at October 6, 2005 11:50 AMAnybody see that advert from Surfrider Foundation on Surfline? Surfrider is putting trash on billboards in SoCal saying, "Found on (beach name) Beach on 8/21/05". Pretty cool.
I always look for trash on the beach after a surf and drop it in the can along the bike path. Last night the beach was clean!
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 11:53 AMCouple more questions:
1) Where does Tim shape out of? One of the local shops?
2) When is that first production run going to be done?
Posted by: steve at October 6, 2005 11:55 AMWay too much free time today. Should have gone surfing instead.

Posted by: steve at October 6, 2005 12:06 PMUmm Skiing is way harder than Snowboarding. With practice you can do all of them, with skill you can rip. Many people with all the practice in the world will never rip at a world-class level (me included). I would say small- medium wave ripping is way more skillful than sacking up and making a big wave drop. Of course skill is involved in big waves especially the real chargers- but any determined, fit person can catch a big wave. Bodyboarding falls lower on the evol scale in my book (sorry bbr) You can ride waves off the Kmart shelf with one- and those crazy thick waves- again more a matter of nuts and desire than pure skill. Mike Stewart and a select few due posess true skills.
Nice morning out there! Here comes the fog and wind, again
Posted by: artifact at October 6, 2005 12:19 PMTim Gras
640-4727
He'll take a few day's to get back to you so call him more than once. It's just how it is.
He's more or less a garage shaper, but does excellent excellent excellent high performance boards. One of the Brazzo rippers had one of his boards, and just recently got two more. Just right for OB, even better than the shapers for the Brazilian pros from home (that don't know OB like Tim does).
I'm working on getting the boxes done in the next month.
Posted by: blakestah at October 6, 2005 12:28 PMI think the main reason surfing is harder than the other sideways sports is less repetition. Fickle beachbreaks, crowds and localization at points & reefs, and just crowds generally means its going to take a lot longer to practice a given move, the only limit on snow is the strength of your legs and the number of bruises you can tolerate.
Posted by: eric at October 6, 2005 12:28 PMmy two cents is that surfing is way way way WAY more difficult to rip at than skiing or snowboarding. Learning how to read the waves, catch the waves, and take off at the right time on pitching waves takes a long long time to master. You can carve down a hill by the end of your first day snowboarding. It's EXTREMELY rare to carve a bottom-turn/top-turn combo on your first surf. Agree that bodyboarding is easier than stand-up.. but.. drop-knee and stand-up bodyboarding are farking tough. taking off on gnarly waves at shark island, wedge and such places are pretty cool bodyboard niches. also note that bodyboarders really openned teauhupoo to the surfers.
Posted by: e at October 6, 2005 12:29 PMYeah, that post makes no sense geek. imho.
the girl was being rude generalizing americans but nice in giving you back your phone, quite a conundrum. imho.
Posted by: bagel at October 6, 2005 12:29 PMmy 2 cents
it takes practice to have skill maybe i should have said..there both almost the same.
1 more cent
Posted by: bagel at October 6, 2005 12:31 PMGimmie Gimmie!!!!
Posted by: Hb at October 6, 2005 12:32 PMBlue Angels are back in town.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 12:42 PM"That's the sound of freedom"
- GWB
Posted by: Q at October 6, 2005 12:45 PMi have ridden a tinkler tail several times. dave kalama and i persauded mike to loan us his only surfboard prototype at the time. dave broke it, i fixed it and kept it for a few weeks. it was a fun diversion. i surfed some good waves on it. i loved bottom-turning on it, it rocketed out of the apexes. but at the time (yikes 18yrs ago) they where a bit heavy. he had a following in the windsurfing world, most notably dave's sail sponsor david ezzy. mike is a great man a bit of a mad kiwi scientist. many stony hydrodynamic theory chats and water hose experiments regarding fin foil concepts. good times.
thanks Steve for the flashback.
Posted by: 3to5setsof7 at October 6, 2005 12:45 PMWASHINGTON - A great white shark named Nicole logged more than 12,000 miles swimming from Africa to Australia and back, the first proof of a link between the two continents' shark populations, researchers say.
A second report details the movement of dozens of salmon sharks from summer waters near Alaska to warmer winter quarters off Hawaii and Baja California.
"Sharks have home ranges that are at the scale of ocean basins," said researcher Barbara A. Block of Stanford University. She added that conservation management of sharks such as the white shark and salmon shark will require international cooperation.
Tracking a shark from Africa to Australia "is one of the most significant discoveries about white shark ecology and suggests we might have to rewrite the life history of this powerful fish," said Ramon Bonfil, lead author of that study.
Both reports appear in Friday's issue of the journal Science.
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 12:48 PMKalama or 3to5?


Posted by: at October 6, 2005 12:58 PM
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 12:59 PMgo Nichole!

Posted by: bagel at October 6, 2005 01:03 PMBlue Angels = "The Thunder of Freedom, the Roar of Democracy"
thanks everyone for paying your taxes so that they can pay their gas tab.
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 01:08 PMreally appreciate the parent-child chatter - my wife is due with our first in 9 days!
this am was fun despite the excess water. nice to see ya bstah, thx for letting me testride the 6'1" - bit small for me & those mushy waves, but it held great on the one decent drop/bottom turn i made.
tip: don't hit your head on the bottom when diving off. did that 3 weeks ago, got burners down both arms - havn't had those since i was playing football. neck xrays were negative and the initial pain/tightness faded pretty quickly, but i am still stiff for side-to-side rotation, and i am also feeling compression pain when i get smacked on the head by waves - even small ones like today. back to the chiro soon...
Posted by: loon at October 6, 2005 01:08 PMBlakestah, good on you for the Tim Gras support.
Posted by: gras fan at October 6, 2005 01:25 PMTim has been my friend and surf commrade for over 20 years... He's committed to the the sport, the beach, shaping and doing things his own way. If all that isn't enough, his boards go great.
dang loon, 9 days huh? how's she doing? my girl's due in 4 months and her stomach's already big. i can't imagine what it will be like when she's that close to her due date.
i'm going off for my last solo sojourn for probably a while next week. backpack, board, water filter. off i go! then it's down to the business of being and adult and parent, while still finding time to get in the water. can't wait til i can take the little guy down to baja. i know just the wave i'm gonna teach him on. LIFE!
Posted by: steamwand at October 6, 2005 01:26 PMi'm goofy.
Posted by: 3to5setsof7 at October 6, 2005 01:27 PMI think the city actually pays for Fleet Week with the revenues coming from the added sales tax collected from visitors. Fleet Week is expected to attract about 1 million people to waterfront businesses, including Fisherman's Wharf.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 01:31 PMOh yeah, by the way, not dogging on any bodyboarders, since I like bodyboarding too. But, I must confess, surfing is a lot harder than bodyboarding -- but bodyboarding, to me, is a lot funner.
And I don't mind falling in snow, breaking bones. Bones heal. The punishment, the ordeal, is over quickly with you knowing you're not going to die. And if you do die, it's usually going to happen pretty quickly when you're skiing or snowboarding. Running out of air, muscles are burning from lactic acid, lungs are scorching, the throat is on fire, and you have a feeling that death is looming makes 10 seconds underwater seem like an eternity. And then you survive, and you come up, but you're not relieved... no, your senses are on full alert, because you know the punishment is just beginning. You remember the times you were naughty a week earlier, and you wonder if this is karma. You remember the times you felt pathetic, after you've done something wrong. You feel humbled, but not in a good way, more like in the way kids feel humbled after the big guy on school beats them up infront of everybody. All of these tangled mix of emotions come out of you when you're in the impact zone on a big farkin' hairy day, and the rip is pulling you out for more punishment. I think of what my mom and dad would feel, after they found out their only son drowned in big surf, and then I think this is so fuckin' pointless to be doing this. Then, eventually, you finally make it in... and you feel like you were just raped, but relieved, and you vow to never go out again. Then, one day you do, and you catch the I swear that was the ride of my life, and do it all over again. That's why to me, surfing, in bigger surf, riding waves, that is, is harder than pretty much any sport.
Posted by: MSG at October 6, 2005 01:33 PMi use to have a gf named nicole, to get her to travel across the room would require more than a little temp discomfort
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 01:39 PMhttp://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/06/BAG3JF368L1.DTL
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 01:47 PMI dated a girl that worked in Seafood Shanty in Willow Grove, PA. I called her Jaws cuz she liked to bite me... Ouch! That was a looong time ago.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 01:50 PM
Posted by: bbr at October 6, 2005 01:53 PMYep I agree w/ you guys surfing is way harder than snowsports- but that is the act of catching waves and practice- skiing 1 run you can bust hundreds of turns - chairlift- repeat. Surfing probably would more equivalent if waves were way longer and in skiing you always had to walk back up the hill and then wait your turn to ride. Or maybe tow-surfing is a better comparison.
But I would argue that the real big mountain ski mountaineering lines that guys pull with tricks in the mix are hard to compete with in any sport in terms of skill and consequence. Far more people die and end up with severe injuries Skiing (especially ski mountaineering where mistakes are fatal) than even big-wave surfing. Then of course it just depends where you ride. Avalanches, rocks, cliffs, and trees can be very unforgiving things. (Waves, reef and sharks too)
MSG you might find being buried in an Avy a similarly terrifying experience and the consequences much scarier.
Posted by: artifact at October 6, 2005 01:54 PMRandy Sexton
Posted by: bagel at October 6, 2005 01:56 PM
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 01:56 PMfirst words I heard this morning: "Daddy, poo-poo"
one of the downsides to parenting = potty training.
Posted by: judahpeak at October 6, 2005 01:59 PMLet me elaborate a bit more.
Kite surfing vs. windsurfing. Kite surfing you just hold on. After a couple tries it's easy. Wind surfing on the other hand takes a LONG TIME before you would even think of taking one on the ocean. You have to tack, read wind etc. Kite surfing has almost none of that.
Skiing vs. snowboarding. In 5 days you can be dropping into diamond bowls and hitting kickers. On skis, it takes YEARS to get the form to ride smooth lines and handle moguls etc....
Snowboarding is way easier. C'mon now- I snowboard and I'm saying it. Ever do a big jump on skis?
Surfing vs. Boogey...no comparison. One thing about boogeys is they can get pretty friggin deep...but in 3 days you can have someone catching waves---can you do that surfing?
Posted by: Geek at October 6, 2005 01:59 PMLet me try again with Friend #1 photos..
Posted by: Mr Doof at October 6, 2005 02:04 PMOK they are both hardcore


Posted by: artifact at October 6, 2005 02:05 PMSeth Morrison
Laird
Tennis can be pretty scary too. I almost broke my neck jumping over the net to shake hands with the loser. That's why nobody does that manuever anymore. How about trying to return a 130 mph serve right atcha. Very scary.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 02:05 PMYes Dennis, very scary indeed!

Posted by: martina at October 6, 2005 02:10 PMhey s'wand! enjoy that last weekend away!!
it is VERY cool at this point - the baby is allegedly 6-8 lbs, big enuf + there's so little room in there that any little movement is noticeable. the butt and the right foot are most evident, i push on them and the baby pushes back sometimes, it is delightful.
my wife had it pretty easy for the whole pregnancy until about 3 weeks ago - on a wednesday she tripped over her own feet & fell while crossing a street in the tenderloin - 2 drunks tried unsuccessfully to come to her rescue. luckily nothing came of that other than us getting to see how a fetal monitor works. but then the following sunday she sneezed and 2 ribs popped out of alignment, causing major back spasms. the dislodging of the ribs was likely related to relaxin (sp?) and other hormones that are released in larger doses during the last few weeks to loosen up the pelvis - unfortunately they have same effect all over. it was really bad for a day but has slowly faded with help of a chiro and a brace. my neck injury happened in between those incidents so we were wondernig WTF!? for a few days!
one cool thing we did last weekend you migh consider: we took a cast of her torso. they have kits for this purpose, think it was from proudbody.com.
Posted by: loon at October 6, 2005 02:12 PMHey all you proud parents, how about somebody post some pix of their daughters?
Preferably in bikinis.
Posted by: Merv the Perv at October 6, 2005 02:27 PMThat's exactly what I'm talkin about martina. Look at that fist pump. You gotta believe the next ball's coming hard! It's change yur shorts time.
Posted by: Dennis at October 6, 2005 02:28 PMCool doc on PBS last night regarding white sharks, their food sources, and the migration of both. Awesome footage of a great white being eaten by a killer whale at the Farallons. Anyone ever seen a killer whale near Monterey? The doc showed them lurking near kelp beds. Great discussion of the feeding locales and timeline(s) for prime feeding in the Red Triangle. The footage and storyline were well done. They hinted that some of the great whites never really go away from our shores and that they may hunt together.
Posted by: The hunted at October 6, 2005 02:47 PMsee loon, i knew you'd tell me some scary sh*t like that. it is so crazy the changes her body is going through. shhesh! well, i'll see you in the water, i hope, and you can provide me with more foreshadowing of my future.
Posted by: steamwand at October 6, 2005 02:59 PMwhat?! no one's mentioned the difficulties of skateboarding! i've done many a sport in my day, and skating is by far the most difficult of all. i've also gotten more injuries skating than all other sports combined. every time you step on that board and try a trick, there is a good chance you're gonna bust your ass!
and snowboarding....jeez...you gotta be extremely uncoordinated to need more than a couple days to achieve proficiency!!
Posted by: rza at October 6, 2005 03:32 PMyes- and skating is the hardest of all!
Posted by: Geek at October 6, 2005 03:54 PMLoon, good shit! I wish you guys the best in the new few weeks. Good times ahead for sure. You are in for an experience, one you can never prepare for so don't even try!
I marked up my first blank the day my wife went into labor. Cut the template out, prepped it for the planar, all measured out and ready to rumble.
It sits as it was 9 months ago! But I still surf when I want and I am sure you will too.
Enjoy the ride!
Posted by: Kaiser at October 6, 2005 04:13 PMskating is hard when you ride half pipes or street parks. street riding is pretty simple. downhill is like snowboarding but when you fall you bleed. that kind of sucks. thats why i dont skate anymore. Surfing is harder than all those combined....
Posted by: dsx at October 6, 2005 04:17 PMRiding liquid attenuated energy pulses from possibley 1000s of miles away has to be by far the best rush I have experienced-skilled or not all of us feel it.
Posted by: toneman at October 6, 2005 04:23 PMSurfing and Snowboarding the same day is number 2 rush.
The mountain is always there.
The streets-concrete-tar are always there.
The waves are always different.Thank God for beachbreaks.
Make the most of what you have.Live life-surf hard.
Nice mood out there now that September/October
now that Sept.-Oct. has started to satisfy
Posted by: toneman at October 6, 2005 04:25 PM
Posted by: Kaiser at October 6, 2005 04:29 PM
Posted by: Kaiser at October 6, 2005 04:30 PMi was riding chair 1 at mt. baker with craig kelly(RIP) one spring afternoon. he had surfed only a few times at this point and whenever i saw him we'd always talk surfing. as we are riding up we watch this telemarker just own this line off a cliff band. most snowbaorders at that time (87) where totally aggro toward skiers. i was floored when the world champ turned and said to me "surfing is pretty tough but have you ever tried to telemark? i respect thier ability so much."
Posted by: 3to5setsof7 at October 6, 2005 04:34 PMthanx kaiser
Posted by: Brian at October 6, 2005 04:49 PMthanks for the well-wishes, kaiser! in the past 3 months i also bought a house and got a new job - adulthood is smacking me upside the head!!
steamwand: got two more comments for you on my experience over the past 38+ weeks:
1) my wife and i are very happy with the care she's getting from a midwife team based at st lukes. it's the only place in the city where a woman can be guaranteed that they will have a midwife there for the delivery - and that guarantee means much higher odds of avoiding csection.
2) we also participated in a "hypnobirthing" class, which youmight think of as a kinder gentler version of lamaze - vreathing still important, but more for relaxation, and no aggro coaching at all.
of course it remains to be seen how effective either will be for delivery, but hit me at pnmcs at comcast dot netttttt if you want more info on either...
Posted by: loon at October 6, 2005 05:03 PMdid the wind actually back off...or am I high?
Posted by: jdzlurker at October 6, 2005 05:10 PMyes, it looks like i may have given up hope too early?
Posted by: bagel at October 6, 2005 05:40 PMloon, do not discount the c-section... or anything further until the guy is out. you are in for the ride of your life! the very best of luck and welcome to the reason why...
Posted by: at October 6, 2005 05:45 PMKaiser...similar story. I started restoring a '68 Dewey Weber shortly before my daughter was born (last December). It still sits as it was the day she was born, but I've managed to still get my days in the water (not feeling like I'm ditching my wife, daughter, work). Weekday DP is my best and favorite option.
Posted by: Q at October 6, 2005 06:15 PMrandy sexton has a new fan.
what a light magician.
thanks, bagel.
guys, congrats on your soon-emerging babes.
Posted by: betho at October 6, 2005 08:18 PMmy advice is once the labor starts, try to stay at home for as long as you can (you know from your classes what a real contraction is). once you check into the hospital, they want a 24 hour turn-around. the "failure to progress" is their way of saying c-sec. that dashed my natural childbirth fantasy pretty quick and ended with a very painful csxn. don't let anyone fool you. it's common, but it's also major abdominal surgery.
on the other hand, 2 of my friends gave birth at home in tubs of water.
not exactly surf blog subject matter here (sorry most of youse), but it's the really real part and once you've done it, you can't help but give some feedback.
'nuff said.
e-- didn't know that so many people were 'real-deal' OB locals until I hooked into your site. Amazing to see how a 3.8 or whatever stretch of beach, which on a given day can only see a handfull of takers, support so much history/knowledge/rancor/diatribe/reasoning/dreaming until I read a tasing of your site.
Posted by: sheet 4 bra8ns at October 6, 2005 08:42 PMMy boy(I am an old SF S.O.B.)...if you didn't go to the desert, there never would be a desert for you. It IS there and so you should go. We here, the non-"Kelly Cove Locals" (whatever), await the perfect swell that will greet your abscecnse. After all, some things are just as important as surfing, but NEVER more important...p.s. johnnie RIP
woe the waves are bad again..
Posted by: bagel at October 7, 2005 10:38 AMDid anyone go out this am? I got up early for a dp. Couldn't see anything but felt a stiff breeze coming from the south and decided against a paddle out.
Posted by: Dennis at October 7, 2005 10:56 AMdennis, i made my way out in the murky drizzle at about half past six and i felt colder than i have in a long time. made it to the inside trash dump, the mist grew thicker, paddled against the walls (two rows, at least) for a while, waiting for a lull to let me through, then gave up prematurely. first time in a long time that my heart wasn't in it. maybe because i only had a half-hour left before leaving for the office?
denied!
the outside had some peelers, for sure, but mixed in with what looked like gaping froth-monsters in the line-up.
second opinion?
Posted by: outearly at October 7, 2005 11:21 AMFirst weekday DP in a long time. Paddled out--nontrivial but not as bad as I'd feared given the wintery foam-everywhere look of the inside. Just a few other folks in sight once outside. Some size, but no enormous bombs where I was. Trouble getting into a bunch of waves, then caught inside, got cleaned up; walked back to the "channel", similar paddle. Two rides: a pleasant little right that I'd expected to be bigger and wilder, and a plenty-wild ledging suck-out drop which closed out pretty quickly. Gimme smaller and cleaner any day. Seals and sea lions on the inside . . .
Posted by: kloo at October 7, 2005 11:26 AMIt looked like there was a hurricane in the bay and waves were being pushed out of the bay sideways and backwards, full on east swell...wooooe!
Posted by: bagel at October 7, 2005 11:36 AMManor.
Posted by: at October 7, 2005 11:55 AMwent out early. Very disorganized and variable swell, hard to find a wave breaking cleanly. Good fun on the 6'1"
Posted by: blakestah at October 7, 2005 12:17 PMHey 3 to 5,
Posted by: Chris at October 7, 2005 12:31 PMI totally agree with your comments regarding telemark skiing. I give such respect to those guys, and when you see a guy who rips, I'm often left speechless. A buddy of mine from Berkeley kills it on tele's...he's a hidden talent who will never get the true respect he desearves. Later.
What is a telemark?
Posted by: Telemarketer at October 7, 2005 12:36 PMMan... I was hoping to go out in the arvo. That bad, huh?? I hope it gets sunny in SF atleast.
Posted by: MSG at October 7, 2005 12:39 PMgood old fashioned ass kicking this a.m. at the beach. not that it was big or burly but i was tired from 5 beers and rock practice in the garage. paddled out at the south end and after the 20th duck dive w/ no promising waves in site i said fuck it and came in. paddled out at the north end and actually enjoyed a couple really good waves and about 3-4 smaller, shorter ones. got tossed on my last wave and rag-dolled. 75 minutes water time and a great early season workout. on to some point surf tomorrow a.m....
Dog Star
Posted by: Dog Star at October 7, 2005 12:40 PM
Posted by: Telemarking at October 7, 2005 12:52 PM
Posted by: Telemarketing at October 7, 2005 01:24 PMTelemarker's are badass and have awesome knees. I think the new AT stuff is way easier and more practical- but hands down to those guys it's f-in hard as hell
Kicked it w/ this photog in AK, Kevin has some insane tele shots- Check it out
http://kevinkleinphotography.com

Posted by: artifact at October 7, 2005 01:52 PMsurfing seems more difficult than tele, but I have only been surfing for 10 years and started alpine at age 3. It is much easier to learn to ski because the "wave" is consistant (more or less). One year of skiing = a life time of wave time. Tele isnt that much harder than alpine, you just have to train your brain to weight your skis a little differently. Surf and ski are both a lot of fun.
Posted by: jmc at October 7, 2005 01:53 PMYeah, this morning was more like I remember it. Started at the North end and by the time I got outside it was so foggy that you couldnt see the beach. I asked a guy, (and there were quite a few of them out there), where he thought we were and he said, Um, Sloat? Pretty, kooky, shifty wind swell peaks outside, unforgiving brutality inside. Ive still sand in my teeth.
Posted by: Spiderman at October 7, 2005 02:35 PMMmmm.. anyone think it's a surf afternoon today?
Posted by: MSG at October 7, 2005 02:39 PMNot the way the flags are blowing downtown.
Posted by: Spiderman at October 7, 2005 02:45 PMLast night I dreamed I was paddling out, got nailed by this OH wave and was dragged/ragdolled underwater - perfectly calmly, thank god - all the way to the shore, continuing under the Great Highway [ it was a bridge over the water ] and popped up on the other side into this calmer kiddie surf pool. Surfers there were staring and applauding , saying thing like, "Wow, we've never seen anyone dragged that far before!"
Woke up, checked conditions, made instant decision to wimp out.
Happy Weekend,
Posted by: s.s. sharkbait at October 7, 2005 02:52 PM
Posted by: Kaiser's Spirit at October 7, 2005 03:03 PMThe buoy is blowing onshore 310 degrees at 20 knots.
Fort Funston wind meter shows 15 knots from 280 degrees.
Bay Area wind models show strong onshores.
Generally not considered favorable wind conditions for surfing.
Oh let's go fly a kite.
Posted by: blakestah at October 7, 2005 03:16 PMBest of luck, loon.
As for the most skillful sports out there, that Canadian one with the tea kettle on the ice with the sweeper...that's gotta take some skill to convince a someone to run around a frozen lake for you. "It's totally solid, eh, just lie flat if it starts to crack, eh."
Friday's reading club is about an old man on a big board, Randy White's Kahuna Come Lately
Posted by: Andrew in Alameda at October 7, 2005 03:41 PMRight now...1 hour away

Posted by: at October 7, 2005 03:42 PMHoly shit.
Tim-mckenna.com
Tahiti was gettin' it nice.
Posted by: Hb at October 7, 2005 03:53 PMThanks for all the wind info guys. I just went to Burlingame for work, and the winds are coming in strong across the mountains. Hmmmm... oh well... hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
Posted by: MSG at October 7, 2005 04:13 PMYabba Dabba Doobie!
Posted by: fred flintstoned at October 7, 2005 05:54 PMlol, sharkbait.
Posted by: kloo at October 7, 2005 08:00 PMfirst day of winter - yadahey!
Posted by: banjo at October 7, 2005 10:45 PMThe charts are showing diminishing winds over the next 48 hours. Maybe by Sunday afternoon we can leave home without being weighted down.
Posted by: Dennis at October 8, 2005 09:03 AMMan, the winds are shaking my apartment this morning. That's not a good sign for the surf, I take it.
Posted by: MSG at October 8, 2005 10:26 AMMSG- that's not a good sign for your apartment...
Posted by: flap at October 8, 2005 11:06 AMEpic, epic day our there today.....for kite surfers!
Posted by: surfseeker7 at October 8, 2005 11:07 AMSh!t...
This blows!
Hahah!
Posted by: MSG at October 8, 2005 12:29 PMMore info on Ambrose & APS3000 machine please.
Posted by: at October 8, 2005 01:34 PMAnon.
Shape it with your hands.
Posted by: at October 8, 2005 02:14 PMAnyone get out in the surf today? It looks less windy, and doesn't look so bad out in SC. Man, I wanna go so bad.
Posted by: MSG at October 8, 2005 05:09 PMwent north to a sheltered spot (popular place), some funnish south lines coming through. blown out by 11. still windy out there, but next week looks promising.
Posted by: jfo at October 8, 2005 05:51 PMI did. Big Vert's, Pubic's, Ala Mowed, Larry's and Cornocopia.
Posted by: Lame Ass at October 8, 2005 06:41 PMDamned hot here. Trades blowing a gentle breeze - still waves but hella clean but small.
Femme Nu tonight after the UH game - then prep for north shore next week.
My wife left me for another man.
I did. Big Vert's, Pubic's, Ala Mowed, Larry's and Cornocopia.
Posted by: Lame Ass at October 8, 2005 06:41 PMDamned hot here. Trades blowing a gentle breeze - still waves but hella clean but small.
Femme Nu tonight after the UH game - then prep for north shore next week.
My wife left me for another man.
fun pix:
http://www.surfline.com/surfnews/2005_10_07_cardiff.cfm
Posted by: at October 8, 2005 10:30 PMWho are you, Lame Ass???
Posted by: MSG at October 9, 2005 12:04 AMwork ruined surfing.
hope yer still jammin' E!
Posted by: Hb at October 9, 2005 11:27 AMIs this a blog? There is alot of talk about blogs on the news. What exactly is a blog?
Posted by: mofo at October 9, 2005 05:26 PMMofo, yeah, it is. Type BLOG and Wikipedia in Google and you'll get a definition.
Anyone else get out there today? This morning was a little hairy. There were some bombs coming in, and some juice too. After 1 p.m., it got pretty crappy. Still some fun ones, but size definitely dropped. Overall, great day to be out there.
Posted by: MSG at October 9, 2005 09:29 PMHi MSG, I surfed 1-2pm; definitely some fun shortboardy waves where I was. Seemed to be a pure but sparse swell mixed with a more frequent but sectiony one. Couldn't do a morning session, which from your description sounds just as well!
Posted by: kloo at October 9, 2005 09:45 PMI surfed Sunday morning from 8:30 to 10:30. It was lots'o'fun. Glassy and overhead. It paid to be selective of the waves though. Some would closeout, others would peel. I opted for the peelers.
I wore my 3/2 and felt ok for the first hour, but then I started getting cold. I thought the sun would do plenty to keep me warm out there...
The last wave I took off on was a fast steep left. A little late on the takeoff but I stuck a vertical drop and pulled in hard. This sucker was fast. Then I noticed a friend paddling out directly in my line. He was only about 10 yards in front of me so I cut back as hard as I could. Later he said he saw my fin just inches from his face. The look on his face as he saw me coming at him was priceless. I'm glad to say that after decades of surfing, still, I've never hit anyone with my board. But this was a close one.
Posted by: Dennis at October 10, 2005 10:41 AMInteresting comments about surfing as a Dad. I think I'll add my 2 cents. I surfed pretty much daily from age 12/13/14 up to age 20. I saw my life not really going anywhere and I didn't like it. I made a big change, and became a Mormon. I went to college & graduate school, married at age 28, had 5 kids and moved inland 700 miles to raise them. Been here almost 20 years now. I go on a surfing trip maybe 3 to 4 times a year. I'm really picky about where I go now. All the agressiveness, foul language, posturing, posing, local vibes, etc. have turned me off from my old spots. Plus the pollution. I can't believe I'm still alive after all those rainy sessions in and around Santa Monica Bay. Baja, and Humboldt County are my current favorites. We'll all get too old to surf eventually. Sorry, but surfing isn't the best thing about life. It's just the funnest. Fun has to be tempered by accomplishment, and becoming something you want to be or it's meaningless. For me, I'm really glad I made an investment in family. I'm sure not the perfect Dad, but I have a great time with my kids & so far they're turning out OK. A family sure makes you sacrafice more than just waves. But the tube time (ha ha like I get much anymore at age 52) is so much sweeter when it comes. I'm pretty lucky my wife lets me go as often as she does. All my neighborhood friends are way worse off than me. They might go hunting once a year if they're lucky. I usually try take one of my kids when I go. It's best when they're in elementary school. If they miss high school or Jr high it messes up their grades. At least primary years is when I enjoy it the most with them. I'll go for 4, 5, 6 days maybe. My oldest has sponged before & he likes it OK. That's all. No regrets. Clean living for me. And surf when I can. Soon I'll have grandchildren, and hopefully something to show for my life when I return to my maker.
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